tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post1947182727995162690..comments2023-06-26T15:18:06.600+01:00Comments on The Sheridan Trial: Tommy Sheridan's Statement in Mitigation SummaryUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-89072887260413788792011-01-28T10:58:59.807+00:002011-01-28T10:58:59.807+00:00Say it ain't so Joe & James and Whatsy et ...Say it ain't so Joe & James and Whatsy et al...<br /><br />Anyone wishing to access the law collections library at the Faculty of Advocates in Parliament Square, Edinburgh (near Waverley Station) can do so through the National Library of Scotland.Jmaesie Cotter Esq. Govan Nutshell Writers Co-opnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-68652428085780232662011-01-27T20:32:01.317+00:002011-01-27T20:32:01.317+00:00@ Say It Ain't So Joe said..6:50 PM
Couldn...@ Say It Ain't So Joe said..6:50 PM<br /><br />Couldn't disagree less :)Iain Mchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01116396787736353248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-5057838131529937362011-01-27T18:50:04.054+00:002011-01-27T18:50:04.054+00:00Jamesie,
Ta.
Anon 2.27. I wasn't on this boar...Jamesie,<br />Ta.<br /><br />Anon 2.27. I wasn't on this board when the Lockerbie trial happened so you have no way of knowing what my views on that are.For what it is worth I am happy that if the prosecution had to take place (please note the 'if')then it should be in as neutral a venue as possible, within a country noted for its values of tolerance and plurality and with appropriate levels of high security to protect the accused, witnesses and other participants. It would have been cheaper indeed to have just renditioned the Libyans stateside for a quick show trial and execution but thankfully we didn't do that.<br /><br />Not a Sun Worshipper 4.32 <br /><br />That's actually an only very slightly recycled Daily Mail letters page rant on why the hard-pressed police should leave the beleagured motorist alone to get on dealing with more important crimes .<br /><br />Nowhere do I suggest that police and prosecution resources should be diverted from dealing with the sort of crimes you mention to concentrate on a perjury case. <br />Senior police are some of the most effective special pleaders and garden-tenders in our public services. I suspect that if the TS case had been stretching resources to the limit (as is the internal logic of the 'trying TS is a waste of money' argument) then we'd have heard plenty of moaning from senior cops. Which we didn't.<br /><br />I'd suggest that if folk are seriously worried about the police being so badly stretched that in future a single investigation into a perjury case (albeit a lengthy and labour-intensive one)would throw policing into meltdown then the following are possible solutions<br /><br />1. Invoice the SPL to fully underwrite the cost of policing football fixtures especially involving the Old Firm. That'd be a few million over the length of a season I'd expect. Okay the money the clubs would pay would have to be found somwhere- increased gate prices for the punters or (please God) less money for already over-paid players and their sundry agents and hangers-on?<br /><br />2. Exempt police from Freedom of Information legislation - sure the odd FOI request turns up something rotten and smelly in the polis but we all know that 99% of requests are from green inkers who want to overturn a speeding ticket they got ten years ago, losers who got black-balled from even the masons or lazy undergraduate law students trying to pad out their dissertation. <br /><br />3. Save time on the whole expensive reporting and prosecution malarkey by just authorising the Chief Constable and a dozen or so other senior officers to get folk locked up for an appropriate period as they see fit on the basis of a 'Certificate of Guilt' handed to a compliant magistrate.<br /><br /><br />It surprises me that an argument which if applied to the NHS would be supportive of rationing and internal markets is being used here to justify Tommy Sheridan being free to do what a jury of his peers found him guilty of.Say It Ain't So Joenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-14942090538821565892011-01-27T18:19:21.868+00:002011-01-27T18:19:21.868+00:00Say it ain't so Joe:
You can find the Susan E...Say it ain't so Joe:<br /><br />You can find the Susan Edwards article in the Criminal Law Review 2003 volume available in most law libraries or central council libraries. Must say I really enjoyed a visit to Glasgow yesterday. At least one city in Britain is a haven of character and characters. Long may you thrive. And I heard the local criminal Bar is not short of work after Cadder...hmmmm may see youse all again soon.Jamesie Cotter Esq. Gail for Govannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-41994432059051930132011-01-27T16:32:09.573+00:002011-01-27T16:32:09.573+00:00Say it ain't so Joe, I would rather the police...Say it ain't so Joe, I would rather the police were feeling a rapist or murderers collar than using the precious little time they have available chasing a guy who may or not have told some porkies in a civil trial against a tabloid.Not a SUN worshippernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-75729909306752057582011-01-27T16:29:14.280+00:002011-01-27T16:29:14.280+00:00Yep I can see where your coming from. perjury is j...Yep I can see where your coming from. perjury is just as important as the trial of a man charged with mass murder of aeroplane passengers.<br />About as good an argument as I've heard from the anti TS clan.Not a SUN worshippernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-84854975524592856312011-01-27T14:27:52.172+00:002011-01-27T14:27:52.172+00:00@ Say It Ain't So Joe - Talking of costs, I di...@ Say It Ain't So Joe - Talking of costs, I didn't hear any protestation of cost when that purpose-built courtroom was erected at Camp Zeist in the Netherlands solely to try one man (The Lockerbie Bomber).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-30466972829045291752011-01-27T13:15:59.924+00:002011-01-27T13:15:59.924+00:00Jamesie,
Thanks for clarifying where that research...Jamesie,<br />Thanks for clarifying where that research originated. I don't suppose you have a link to it.<br /><br />Not A sun Worshipper 8.24 a.m - that's a line of argument that old-stagers on the board like meself are used to seeing being used in both directions pretty much since the investigation started far less the trial opened. One argument is that the costs issue is a red herring as the vast bulk of expense is actually fixed costs i.e the cops were there being paid anyway irrespective of who's collar they were feeling then later so were the courts, court staff etc etc. <br /><br />Another argument is that a big trial is actually public money well spent as it gets cash out into the wider economy thanks to the sheer number of piglets attaching themselves to the sow. <br /><br />There is, of course, the very respectable argument that any sum spent simply to prove that a man lied is too much but it's not an argument that I am much taken by.<br />Pretty much every developed legal system has an offence of perjury or similar on the books so it's not as if we're talking about some piece of uniquely Scottish arcanery.<br /><br />The jury thought it important enough to return their verdict on.Say It Ain't So Joenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-89312378969762907042011-01-27T08:22:30.614+00:002011-01-27T08:22:30.614+00:00This case has cost the taxpayer millions and now ...This case has cost the taxpayer millions and now we will be picking up the tab daily for his incarceration.<br />Try explaining that to people in waiting lists for operations, and kids who have to learn in classes of 30 plus, or our crime ridden streets due to shortage of policeman. Sorry we would rather spend the money pursuing a liar who had the cheek to take on the News of The World.Not a SUN worshippernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-58279656390291750732011-01-27T00:45:38.252+00:002011-01-27T00:45:38.252+00:00Most, if not all, of that analysis was done by Sus...Most, if not all, of that analysis was done by Susan Edwards in the Criminal Law Review of 2003. Virtually the only analysis available both to the judge and TS. Points of comparability, seriousness and multiple offences as compared to TS's situation I thought were well-articulated; although in treble the time an experienced advocate would take.<br />One aim of a good mitigation is to make the judge ponder whether the sentence he had in mind would be overturned on appeal. The retirement of Lord B for 30 minutes after TS's speech was a telling indication there was some judicial concern about a heavy sentence surviving the appeal court. In the end, three years is (on its own without any other appeal points) in all likelihood unappellable given the spread of authorities quoted.<br />Other than that, the mitigation achieved its main aims with some pitfalls, notably when TS claimed there were no victims of his crime other than the effect on the administration of justice itself. Try telling that to the numerous SSP members accused of lying by TS.<br /><br />I felt that, as regards presentation,TS had been read the Riot Act by his lawyer as the former belligerence evident in his 5 hour closing speech could only be detected when he mentioned journalists and the NotW.Jamesie Cotter Esq. Govan Prison Visits for Votes Campaignnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-31775745989999019212011-01-26T23:43:36.343+00:002011-01-26T23:43:36.343+00:00the "narrowest of verdicts" could only b...the "narrowest of verdicts" could only be an 8-6 split, otherwise it would be a "narrow" verdict. Or is this just Tommy-speak?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-72008343429705186032011-01-26T21:59:40.480+00:002011-01-26T21:59:40.480+00:00Yes, anon 8.39 the 'narrow verdict' line i...Yes, anon 8.39 the 'narrow verdict' line is hard to pin down. Perhaps there's been chat but as far as I am aware at any official level the jury vote will never be revealed.<br /><br /><br /><br />As ever James the reporting is excellent and gets to stuff we'll never see elsewhere - for example the detailed analysis of perjury sentences south of the border.Say It Ain't So Joenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-86738517974802221862011-01-26T20:39:35.340+00:002011-01-26T20:39:35.340+00:00What is this "narrowest of majorities" t...What is this "narrowest of majorities" that Tommy is referring to? Has the actual jury split being revealed? And if so, what was it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com