tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post86266980039181981..comments2023-06-26T15:18:06.600+01:00Comments on The Sheridan Trial: The VerdictUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-59674114752266882692010-12-29T16:13:25.567+00:002010-12-29T16:13:25.567+00:00I think that the issue regarding the dropped charg...I think that the issue regarding the dropped charges is a storm in a teacup. Recall that the jury took six hours to reach a verdict on six charges. They would have been wholly over-whelmed had they had to consider the full initial indictment: two/three days of intellectual and emotional exhaustion.<br /><br />The indictment list was always going to be simplified. What the Crown will have been aiming for was for the accused to be found guilty of all charges.<br /><br />This also explains the probable reason why the charges against GS were dropped. It would have been much more difficult for the jury to reach a verdict against TS if that verdict compelled them to return a verdict on GS which meant she could be sent to prison.<br /><br />As it was the jury had a relatively simple charge sheet which they were able to consider on the evidence.Critical-eyehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01798989173047492175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-54261728733770240502010-12-29T14:36:51.426+00:002010-12-29T14:36:51.426+00:00@Peter:
I am making an assumption like yourself, ...@Peter:<br /><br />I am making an assumption like yourself, of course, but I feel it makes a lot more sense than that which you propose ("some charges were changed/dropped so the jury thinks those witnesses are liars, despite believing their accounts accurate relating to other charges which were successful" - is that a fair summary?).<br /><br />With respect to the Crown pressing charges they knew not have any corroboration: is it not possible that there were was evidence available that wasn't led, perhaps coz Prentice didn't think it strong enough to go on? Or maybe, as the Sunday papers suggested, it could have an issue related to the inability of the Crown to lead some forensics due to the Cadder ruling?<br /><br />Again I am of course only guessing.Chumponoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-39059043507830305872010-12-29T08:21:50.300+00:002010-12-29T08:21:50.300+00:00@Peter & @Chumpo
Regarding deleted charges, m...@Peter & @Chumpo<br /><br />Regarding deleted charges, may I direct you to the comments of Lord Bracadale in his charge to the jury:<br /><br />"Lord Bracadale stated that evidence from deleted charges on the indictment was still available to the jury to consider if it is useful, and that it was normal for some charges to be dropped in the course of a trial, as the Crown had to give “Fair Notice” of charges, even if evidence does not emerge to corroborate the charge, such as with the Subornation BeanScene chapter involving Colin Fox."<br /><br />http://sheridantrial.blogspot.com/2010/12/lord-bracadale-charge-to-jury.htmlWhatsyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08204921386892706588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-85475073424217377012010-12-29T01:41:50.423+00:002010-12-29T01:41:50.423+00:00Hi Chumpo, December 26, 2010 12:29 P
You raise a ...Hi Chumpo, December 26, 2010 12:29 P<br /><br />You raise a point on lack of corroboration that I have been taking up with Whatsy elsehwere in the blog without much success (from either of us) in getting to the bottom of it.<br /><br />Prentice presumably knows the law on corroboration that you and Whatsy quote. No?<br /><br />Let's agree he probably does :)<br /><br />Next you say you know why (or at least indicate or insinuate that you know why) the jury rejected the indictments regarding the alleged affair with the energetic Ms Khan.<br /><br />You say that it took the decision because of the lack of corroboration.<br /><br />NB: I am not sure how you could KNOW that is the case as you were not on the jury. At best you are having a guess - like the rest of us? No?<br /><br />Why do you say it was a lack corroboration rather than them simply just not believing Khan? <br /><br />I think that is more likely (or at least as likely) they did not believe her after her testimony - but that is only a guess as well.<br /><br />You (and Whatsy) elsewhere say that the judge raised the law on corroboration with the jury that you quote.<br /><br />Again I say did Prentice not know this law in advance of the judge raising it? Seriously now?<br /><br />Therefore can you explain why Prentice is allowed to present charges in Scottish courts, that as you say were uncorroborated, if they had no chance of success at due to the lack of corroboration - a lack that he well knew of!<br /><br />In England and Wales there is a Code of Practice for prosecutors.<br /><br />I have read it. The general idea is for the Crown prosecutors not to abuse their powerful position they have to influence juries by bringing unsustainable charges.<br /><br />Also to threaten the accused, co-accused or to present the case unfairly to the jury by bringing a range of unsustainable indictments is outwith that guidance.<br /><br />You appear to agree that Prentice brought a range of uncorroborated charges.<br /><br />Indeed some of them were deleted by himself before the end of the trial!<br /><br />Is bringing uncorroborated charges against Gail and Tommy (or anyone)excusable? <br /><br />Is it fair to the jury and the accused that this was done? <br /><br />Is it proper for justice?<br /><br />Maybe it is a sharp practice but still lawful and therefore whilst maybe a breach of guidance (in Scotland as well?) it may not be a grounds for appeal?<br /><br />So what say you about that tactic?<br /><br />Cheers,<br /><br />PeterPeternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-54806403971145564082010-12-27T00:08:06.264+00:002010-12-27T00:08:06.264+00:00@ Lefty Trainspotter -
Aye, the benefit of hinds...@ Lefty Trainspotter - <br /><br />Aye, the benefit of hindsight is a wonderful gift.<br /><br />LOL!!!<br /><br />Happy New Year and thanks for the blog James.<br /><br />You are a credit to cyber journalism.<br /><br />Good Luck to all here and regardless of the verdict or the 'guilt' in this case, I hope TS avoids a custodial sentence. I think a vengeful state is a danger to justice and there is no more sentence than being found to be a liar by your peers.<br /><br />It looks like there's going to be a tabloid frenzy of more seedy allegations that I think we could all do without.<br /><br />I wish Tommy and his family good luck and peace.Eraserheadnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-18480674989049360732010-12-26T12:29:30.905+00:002010-12-26T12:29:30.905+00:00Hugh you will have to explain your point in more d...Hugh you will have to explain your point in more detail, as I don't follow your argument. The jury declared the charges relating to the cupids visit and to later admitting to the cupids visit, proven.<br /><br />There were other charges relating to the ongoing relationships with AK and KT - the jury considered that with KT was proven (after amending out an unproven detail), but that with AK wasn't proven (as there was no corroborating evidence beyond AK's testimony). As the jury were instructed, each charge needs at least two pieces of evidence in support for a conviction to be justified.<br /><br />Therefore the fact of the non-conviction on one charge and editing of one of the five successful charges does NOT mean the jury "didn't believe" the witnesses concerned or thought they were lying. Clearly that was not the case.<br /><br />Best wishes,<br />Chumpo<br /><br />PS. Legally, it is no longer an "allegation" that TS visited Cupids - it is considered "proven".Chumponoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-74173505890918026592010-12-26T11:46:36.554+00:002010-12-26T11:46:36.554+00:00hi Chumpo.
The main "allegation" was th...hi Chumpo.<br /><br />The main "allegation" was that TS visited a swingers club with four other people.The jury didn't believe two of the most important witnesses from the defence, so much so that they had the indictment altered to reflect this.It was obviously a bone of contention in their delibration and in my opinion must form "reasonable doubt".Hugh Mnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-59852161313889872032010-12-26T09:10:44.295+00:002010-12-26T09:10:44.295+00:00@anon 101
it's almost as if they should have ...@anon 101<br /><br />it's almost as if they should have had the sense to counsel him to not start the train that would end in this wreck by pointing out it would end in this wreck.<br /><br />If only they had had that kind of long term view at the time...Lefty Trainspotternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-70112221562077766232010-12-26T05:21:36.523+00:002010-12-26T05:21:36.523+00:00I can't take it any more... I admit it... Tomm...I can't take it any more... I admit it... Tommy must be innocent. <br /><br />It's a burning pain in my soul. <br /><br />Where can I submit my evidence?Jessica Fletcher P.I.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Fletchernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-62591512073479223182010-12-25T20:49:07.106+00:002010-12-25T20:49:07.106+00:00It seems to me that there was a convergence of int...It seems to me that there was a convergence of interest in this case.<br /><br />The SSP "United Left" faction wanted rid of Sheridan because he was getting too big for his boots and they couldn't quite get out from under his shadow.<br /><br />Our elders and betters in the Murdoch empire wanted to discredit a very effective socialist from leading any kind of fightback against corporate Britain.<br /><br />What a shame the SSP leaders could only see their short term interests being served and couldn't take a wider look at what the people they pupport to represent might actually need - and that is not a socialist disgraced and in prison.anon 101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-40975643100423250002010-12-25T20:26:59.162+00:002010-12-25T20:26:59.162+00:00For my part I have to say I agree with the verdict...For my part I have to say I agree with the verdict and that justice must be allowed to take it course. A serious crime has been committed, a crime predetermined to undermine the validity of the justice system, and a suitably robust deterrent sentence (I am sure) will and must be passed.<br /><br />I appreciate that this is a case/situation that has opened deep (in some cases it appears very deep) wounds and it'd be inappropriate for me to comment on the validity of these. <br /><br />What I would say is this. I personally hold no malice for Mr. Sheridan and would ask those who now feel vindicated to reflect on the following:<br /><br />1. The sentence passed is likely to be substantial by all accounts and I, for one, feel sure it will be of suitable length to invoke the Representation of the People Act and prevent Mr. Sheridan ever standing for elected office again.<br />2. It will remove him from society, as is right, but it will also deprive a small child of her father and a loving wife of her partner. <br />3. The newspaper, again as is right, will undoubtedly seek to recoup its losses and that puts the family home at risk and the future comfort/security of Mr. Sheridan's family in some doubt.<br /><br />Given this, given the long-term effects of Mr. Sheridan's actions on those who shoulder no part of the blame, I think we might all just take a minute and be a bit more temperate in our musings.<br /><br />Justice 'will' be done on January the 26th, it would be ill served if all it produced as a result was a baying mob.Boomerangnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-76812908012542686092010-12-25T19:39:19.492+00:002010-12-25T19:39:19.492+00:00I would like to thnk all the people that we met in...I would like to thnk all the people that we met in the queue. With a few notable exceptions you were feisty, intelligent, well-informed wise and above all fun. The odd few hours of standing became a pleasure in your company. You made the year 2010 for me.<br /><br />The verdict was not what we would have wished. The problem is now to get the real story out there. We can only do this with James's help.<br /><br />Keep at it James. You will know I have selfish reasons for this but try to keep the Blog online for as long as you can.<br /><br />In spite of all this sadness, best wishes to the Sheridans. I would say you held the moral high-ground but that is no great compliment when I consider the depths to which so many plummeted in pursuit of self-justification, self-aggrandisement, greed and a contempt for the ordinary Scottish people which is beyond comprehension.Denizennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-7779673161141399112010-12-25T19:29:04.072+00:002010-12-25T19:29:04.072+00:00Gail was interviewed for 5 hours, and in the littl...Gail was interviewed for 5 hours, and in the little bit we saw on TV, the police, although asking some pretty disgusting questions, were doing it in a low key way.<br /><br />What I would like to see are the other 4 hrs & 55 mins and see how much shouting and intimidation was going on.<br /><br />Bet the Police are not so keen to "leak" that footage.<br /><br />That footage was obviously released to the not so secret policeman Mark Daly a long time ago. Because of the ongoing trial he couldn't release it until after the verdict, but they were determined to get it out there by hook or by leak :-)<br /><br />They must really want to get the Sheridans !Santa was a Red...noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-51077052250294137722010-12-25T19:04:23.163+00:002010-12-25T19:04:23.163+00:00What's next strategy for the TS camp will it b...What's next strategy for the TS camp will it be 'free the cupid one' or how about releasing a charity single 'i'm screaming for a quiet mistress'The red jokernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-24593748573742603882010-12-25T14:40:45.436+00:002010-12-25T14:40:45.436+00:00re the release of the interview video i believe L&...re the release of the interview video i believe L&B popo made certain productions available to the media. i honestly believe that was wrong in gails case and like ??? above the gloating statement from the popo after the verdict is wrong. maybe they should stick to easy convictions, speeding and domestics. they dont cost £1.3m to investigate.<br />i dont think its possible in scots law to sue for comments made from a witness box (pira, ira etc) but when they released the video there might be a way into them for that.<br /><br />as an outsider to this ongoing ssp, ssy, solidarity fued i find it very tiring its more akin to pira and the ira struggling for power over the people. <br /><br />someone posted the name hollie berry on the blog weeks ago go google it and then fomulate the plan forward.<br /><br />merry christmasknock knocknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-40471635268800924352010-12-25T14:37:33.527+00:002010-12-25T14:37:33.527+00:00lol Anon 12:00 appears to have been on the "s...lol Anon 12:00 appears to have been on the "sherry". 14+2=16!! Did TS have a "special" jury?, because as far as I am aware that is unheard of in Scottish Law; maybe someone will correct me. If I recall correctly it was 12 women and 2 men = 14? on the TS jury that delivered the verdict. Imagine dropping a clanger like that in your reports, James.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-81253540298415905052010-12-25T14:25:13.799+00:002010-12-25T14:25:13.799+00:00Anonymous 12.00pm (there is no such time, and why ...Anonymous 12.00pm (there is no such time, and why can't you use a real name).<br />If you can make such a blunder as aserting there were 12 men on the jury and 2 women, you lack all credibility.Hamishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07401451754373118599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-37268536081437544152010-12-25T13:36:10.348+00:002010-12-25T13:36:10.348+00:00Hugh - the jury were being careful as they thought...Hugh - the jury were being careful as they thought that charge (the long-running sexual relationship) was not corroborated in evidence, whereas the cupids visit etc were. It doesn't mean they don't think there could have been a relationship, just that there wasn't enough evidence presented to prove it.<br /><br />RE. The jury split - I think in the 2006 TS vs NoTW case the split was announced. Is it different in civil vs criminal cases?Chumponoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-15642587356985058672010-12-25T12:37:44.447+00:002010-12-25T12:37:44.447+00:00If TS did not have a sexual relationship with Anva...If TS did not have a sexual relationship with Anvar Begum Khan what was he doing at a swingers club with her. The verdict is nonsensical. It also raises the issue of further perjury charges for quite a few of the witnesses. It might not be in the public interest but it surely must be in Tommy Sheridans interest. If two of the main witnesses relating to the charge of visiting a swingers club have lied elsewhere surely this would make their testimony unreliable at the very least.Hugh Mnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-38124243470636401902010-12-25T12:00:23.421+00:002010-12-25T12:00:23.421+00:00One thing we can be certain of is AT LEAST eight o...One thing we can be certain of is AT LEAST eight out of the 14 remaining jurors (14 men and 2 women) voted for a GUILTY verdict. TS had an "advantage" to with the excused juror because that is effectively a vote for aquittal (since the can't constitute any of the 8 that were STILL required to convict. All we know is that there was not any more than 6 who voted not guilty/not proven. But as far as the conviction stands it doesn't matter a jot.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-61615585723229097632010-12-25T11:52:36.651+00:002010-12-25T11:52:36.651+00:00Anonymous 11.22
All deliberations in the jury roo...Anonymous 11.22<br /><br />All deliberations in the jury room, including details of the majority, are privileged and protected by the Contempt of Court Act 1981. Even the Clerk of Court is not told the majority, and it is not recorded.<br /><br />Unofficially, of course, a juror may choose to mention it, but that is not part of the court recordsthe_voice_of_reasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10179007944478552588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-29476165895321022512010-12-25T11:50:23.763+00:002010-12-25T11:50:23.763+00:00Anon 11:22 - don't see why it shouldn't be...Anon 11:22 - don't see why it shouldn't be revealed, for instance Nat Fraser was found guilty on an 8-7 majority; unless they only reveal "narrow" majorities or something, judge's "discretion", or maybe it's one rule for Nat Fraser et al and another rule for Tommy Sheridan.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-19824600585218239312010-12-25T11:22:26.035+00:002010-12-25T11:22:26.035+00:00TS was found guilty by a majority. I wonder if any...TS was found guilty by a majority. I wonder if anyone knows if it will ever be revealed what the split in the vote was? Or is that supposed to be kept secret?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-6448907252741910092010-12-25T10:20:24.374+00:002010-12-25T10:20:24.374+00:00That was annoying and a breach of Data Protection ...That was annoying and a breach of Data Protection rules. But it does show that Tommy over-hyped his allegations about the police behaviour in interview. We otherwise might never know.Jamesie Cotter Esq. Govannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-500792161594913167.post-64383074082004896952010-12-25T09:49:47.521+00:002010-12-25T09:49:47.521+00:00Pity you felt that you had to remove the paypal bu...Pity you felt that you had to remove the paypal button, I am sure that you will let us know your reasons in due course.<br /><br />In any case, have a very happy Christmas, and I do hope that you gain the 'proper job' you so deserve in the New Year!!! <br /><br />:-)<br /><br />JohnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com